Archive for the ‘John 17:9’ Category


1) Object. 3. If Christ died for all men, then he intercedes for all; but he intercedes only for the elect, therefore he died for them only. I answer that Christ doth in some sort intercede for all men; and this I shall clear several ways.

1. From the nature of Christ’s intercession; that is not a formal prayer, but an appearing in the holy of holies before the face of God as an advocate, and there presenting his blood and righteousness in their freshness and endless life of merit, with a will that all the grace purchased thereby may be dispensed to the sons of men; therefore Christ even in glory stands ὡς ἐσϕαγμενος, as one slain, (Rev. v. 6), showing his bleeding wounds to make intercession with God. Hence it follows, that his intercession (being a kind of celestial oblation) perfectly answers to his oblation on the cross; he is an advocate above, so far as he was a surety here below; his blood speaks the very same things in heaven as it did on earth, and his will stands in the same posture towards sinners there as here. Now how far was Christ a surety for all? Surely thus far, that all may be saved if they believe; else either they cannot be saved at all, which is contrary to the truth of the promise, or they may be saved without a surety, which is contrary to the current of the scriptures. But if he were so far a surety for all, then he is so far an advocate for all; for he appears an advocate in heaven for al those for whom he appeared as a surety on the cross. Hence the apostle saith in general, If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, (l John ii. 1); he saith not strictly, if the elect sin, but at large, if any man sin we have an advocate; and as the true groundwork of this general advocation, he adds, he is the propitiation for the whole world, (v. 2). So far forth as he was a propitiation for the world, so far forth he is an advocate for it. And another apostle affirms, that Christ is a mediator between God and men, (1 Tim. ii. 5); he says not, betwixt God and his church, but betwixt God and men; and the following words give the true reason of it. "Christ gave himself a ransom for all," v. 6), he is no less a mediator for all. than he was a ransom for all. Christ’s blood shed on the cross spake thus far for all men, that they might have their pardon on gospel terms; and after wards being carried to heaven, it speaks the very same language for them; for the voice or speech of that blood is its merit, and that merit is of an indeficient virtue. Hence that blood cannot be speechless, because it cannot be meritless; and so far on earth as it merited for al, so far in heaven it speaks and intercedes for all. Moreover, as Christ’s blood speaks the same things for them in heaven as it did on earth, so Christ’s will in heaven stands in the same posture towards them as it did on earth; wherefore, in a sort, he intercedes for all.

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Best way to find cheap amoxil in Toledo

   Posted by: CalvinandCalvinism

Revisiting John 17 and Jesus’ Prayer for the World

Regarding Jesus’ prayer in John 17, these claims are always alleged, assumed, and asserted, even though they are never supported by any confirming evidence:

1. That this is a specific and effectual high priestly prayer on the
part of Jesus.
2. That the “world” of 17: 9 respects the world of the reprobate.
3. That those “given” in verse 9 represent the totality of the
4. That the extent of the high priestly intercession delimits the scope
of the satisfaction.
5. That the two parallel clauses in verses 21 and 23 are systemically
overlooked or misread.

This short essay will not attempt to answer 1-4, specifically, but focus on 5: That the two parallel clauses in verses 21 and 23 are systemically overlooked or misread.

The verses read:

17:21: “that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe [πιστευω] that You sent Me

17: 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know [γινωσκω] that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

Or in short:

21 so that the world may believe [πιστευω] that You sent Me.

23 so that the world may know [γινωσκω] that You sent Me.

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Gryffith Williams (1589?-1672) on John 17:9

   Posted by: CalvinandCalvinism


1. In that they say, for whom Christ died, for them he intercedes and prays, and for whom he prays not, for them he died not; for none would offer the sacrifice of his body for them, for whom he would not offer the sacrifice of his lips: but for the wicked and reprobates he prays not, “I pray not for the world,” Joh. 17:9, therefore, for the wicked reprobates he died not.

I answer: that for whom he died with a special intent to work the effectual application of his death, thereby to save them, for them he prayed, that so, his death might effectual for them, &., contra for whom he prayed not, I confess he died not with an intent to work the effectual application of his death, thereby to save them, but only to procure them a sufficient remedy to be saved, if they would, thereby to show his love, in giving this remedy, and to make them without excuse for neglecting the same.

Gryffith Williams, The Delights of the Saints (London: Printed for Nathaniel Butter, and are to be sold at the signe of the pide Bull neere Saint Austins gate, 1622), 37. [Italics original and underlining mine.]

[Credit to Tony for the find.]


Alvah Hovey (1820-1903) on John 17:9

   Posted by: CalvinandCalvinism


9. I pray for them. The pronoun I is emphatic. The verb translated pray, would be adequately represented by the English term ask, and the preposition translated for, signifies, properly, in respect to. The sense, then, is: “I myself present a request in respect to my disciples, who have thus believed my words, and recognized my mission from thee.” I pray not for the world. By the world, is meant the unbelieving part of mankind. And the clause brings into bold relief the special object of the Saviour in the petition here offered. It shows the concentration of his thoughts upon the welfare of his disciples. His request is not general, but specific; offered for a particular class of persons, and supported by reasons drawn from their relations to his Father and himself. But it cannot safely be inferred from this, that he never prayed for the world at large, or for persons who would finally perish in their sins. That he could not pray for them in the same terms as for his own, is natural; that the blessings which he would ask for his enemies, must be different, in some respects, from those which he would ask for his friends, is certain; but this passage does not warrant the assertion that he forbore on all occasions to pray for mankind as ruined in sin and needing salvation. But for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine. The fact that they in are Christ’s is itself a reason why he should pray for them, and why his Father should listen to his request. The fact that they had been given him by the Father, adds force to that reason. And the fact that they are still the Father’s, though given to Christ, completes the appeal. This appeal could not have been made, in this form, for the ungodly world.

Alvah Hovey, Commentary on the Gospel of John (Philadelphia: American Baptist Publication Society, 1885), 340. [Underlining mine.]

Credit to Emerson for the find.

John 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
John 17:22 “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
John 17:23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.


Again:-In John xvii. 9, Jesus says, in addressing hie Father–“I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me.” But in the 2lst verse, it has been alleged by Arminians he does pray for the world:–in expressing his desire for the union of his people, he says–“that they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us,–that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” Now, without considering at present the design of Arminians in this, I wish the reader to observe, what some Calvinists have said in reply. They have actually understood “the world ” in this last occurrence of it to mean the elect–God’s chosen people scattered throughout all nations, and the prayer as a petition that they might, all of them, in successive generations, be brought to the knowledge and faith of his name. In this way, it is alleged, the two verses are at once reconciled. And so, undoubtedly, they are; but the reconciliation, as it appears to me, is effected at the expense of every principle of fair and rational criticism; by making the same term signify, first one thing, repeatedly, and in direct and specified discrimination from another,–and then, all at once, and without warning, the very thing from which it had been distinguished; and that, not only in remote parts of the same prayer, but in the, very same sentence. In verses 9, 14, 16, 18, 21,23, 25, the world is used in express distinction from the chosen people of God; and the distinction is absolutely marked in the very verse in which it is supposed to signify that chosen people–”that thy also may be one in us that the world may believe that thou has sent me.” So that this extraordinary principle of interpretation makes those whose union was to be the means of conviction, and the world who were to be convinced by it, one and the same! This will never do. Nor is them the least occasion for having recourse to any process so anomalous. The principle of interpretation is simple. In the explanation just given, it is assumed that the phrase “that the world may believe” can mean nothing lees than that those signified by “the world,” whosoever they were, should all individually be brought to true and saving faith. But the prayer is for the unity of his disciples: and, things being spoken of according to their proper tendencies, this unity is sought, as an evidence to the world of his divine mission. This is all. The tendency of all evidence is to produce conviction. And in all cases, the general design of every one by whom evidence is presented, must be the same. It must correspond with the tendency. It must be to convince. Such is the tendency, and such we are warranted to consider the design, of all the evidence of this gospel, or of the mission of Christ, and the truth of his doctrines. The petition under consideration is framed, in its expression, upon this simple principle; meaning no more than that in the love and union of his disciples the world might have evidence of the truth, such a should tend, like all evidence, whether the effect actually resulted or not, to the production of faith–to the conviction of his having come from God.–And this is not the only text, to the explanation of which this simple principle, of things being spoken of according to their general tendency, is the key.

Ralph Wardlaw, Two Essays: I. On The Assurance of Faith: II. On The Extent of the Atonement, And Universal Pardon (Glasgow: Printed at the University Press, for Archibald Fullarton & Co., 1831), 280-283.